Many comics start out as some kids' hobby, I know mine did. As time passes, you become better (at least you hope you do) and you start fleshing out your characters. You've been building that house that is the storyline in your head when you finally look back, only to find out that you made the foundation out of pebbles and ducttape.
Bloody hell.
Now what do you do? Your current chapter is full-colour, with loads of backgrounds and an interesting storyline and all of a sudden, the sketchy doodles in chapter one look really out of place. Not to mention, the first chapters are so random that they pretty much mess up the comic as a whole.
To make things worse, that crossover, although it was really fun at the time, now serves as a giant roadblock on the way to printing the thing. What if I redo the first chapter? Well, that would make the 2nd one look rather crappy, wouldn't it? So I'll redo that one too. But now the 3rd one looks like crud, so I'll ... you get the picture. How far should one go to make a comic consistent, or rather, how far should one go to 'upgrade' old art and story?
Re: from hobby comic to professional: the pitfalls of progress
So far it's been a very successful experiment.
Haunted Pixel Studios
www.hauntedpixelstudios.com
I've just gone through this
I've just gone through this problem recently, and I solved it another way; I deleted the first forty comics from my archives.
Although I only started in December, and I'm still nowhere near being good enough, either for myself or anyone else (but I will get there, through sheer arrogance/determination), and you guys are refering to years of progress rather than months, but I couldn't stand those first drooling comics forming the first strips in my now smaller archives. And now that I've done it, I feel no regret in deleting them. I've got less comics, but a bigger resolve.
This will be the only time I do this, by the way; I'm not going to periodically delete comics to keep up a standard. That would be a seriously bad habit to have! And I still have the original sheets and the scanned images. Maybe one day I'll put them back up, should anyone ask for their return. No-one has so far, so they can't be missed. They're certainly not missed by me.
http://thineappellation.comhttp://thineappellation.com
Thanks, xerexes, for
I just went through that process, in a way. I've re-issued two of my first comics as a "classic edition", sort of (waiting for the proof copy right now). I never really wanted to go back there, but the "classic" meme helped me through. So I cleaned the pages up a bit, but only as far as I should have done it back then, not the way I'd do it now. As extra issues, these books are not part of what I now consider my comics line, but they're available.
As a side note, it got me interested in working with one of the characters again, after a three year break and frequent vows not to do that. The first new issue will have a short flashback sequence for the backstory, and that's that. A future collection would have that flashback, but it wouldn't go all the way back.
(Don't worry, I'm not trying to plug them here. Wrong language, anyway.)
I hate the thought of
I hate the thought of re-doing anything but there have been several large jumps in art style and ability. I didn't start over with the story when I rebooted the art - I kept going. But I pushed my older stories onto separate sites and linked to them as stand-alone prequels. So they are available to read, but separate from the current story.
Greg Carter Abandon UpDown Studio
...
One-liners - New strips on Fridays.
One-liners - New strips on Fridays.
Redoing Old Comics? Hobby To Pro Questions
Benevelent dictator prerogative - reviving a 2 year old but pretty good signal-to-noise ration thread about the pitfalls facing any webcomic creator starting to climb up the ladder of quality and commitment.
____
Xaviar Xerexes
On second thought, let's not go to Comixpedia. It is a silly place.
RE: from hobby comic to professional: the pitfalls of progre
I was in the same boat. I placed the same connundrum to my readers. They told me to leave the old archives I drew as-is, even though - in my opinion, they were really bad.
Having those crusty, ugly archives in your collection will show you AND your readers just how much you've progressed since the beginning. That said, sometimes I'll redraw an old toon if a client wants to publish it in a magazine or book - other times, I've redrawn a toon but come up with a brand new caption for it, essentially making it another toon in unto itself.
My $0.02,
-Krishna
RE: from hobby comic to professional: the pitfalls of progre
I agree with bob. It's better to study your old work and keep it around for several different reasons. You can give yourself a 'booster shot' by realizing just how much you've improved with practice, and it also archives yoru progress while you're doing it. I do my webcomic mostly for fun, but I'm also using it as a learning tool of what works and what doesn't, layout, art and story wise. If I ever take it to print, I'll definitely redo all of it because it hurts my face just to look at it.
But if you still think the early chapters are not up to snuff enough that it ruins the comic, you can always re-do them as a new chapter. Kind of like how tv shows and movies are re-made or updated, except this time you have a far more clear vision of what you want to tell.
But seriously, keep the old pages. For... for nostalgia. Because that's the in thing now.
RE: from hobby comic to professional: the pitfalls of progre
Too many artists worry about their archives and going back over them. But when your style changes again, they still look funky. Me, I'd rather spend my time working on new material than retracing old ground
RE: from hobby comic to professional: the pitfalls of progre
I wrestled with this problem myself. I've come so far with my drawing skills that I can't stand looking at my earlier works they're just that bad. But if I were to redraw all my early strips when would I stop? It usually only takes a week or two before all the mistakes I make in my artwork come glaring out at me. I'll never be perfectly satisfied with my drawing so why bother redoing the early stuff? It would simply never end. There just comes a point where you have to put your pen down and walk away from a work and let it stand for what it is, a moment in time.
Besides, the visable progression in your work will act as not only an inspiration to other people to try (hey, that guy really sucked at first too but now he's not too bad so I shouldn't be afraid of sucking at first), but also as an inspiration to yourself (hey, I can see what I was doing wrong in the early strips and I know how to correct it now, I can see myself getting better, that means I'm going somewhere).
Plus sometimes you can just get a little too anal about shit that just doesn't matter. This is comics after all. We had a saying in the army "you don't pick fly shit out of pepper". Don't get caught up in the minutia.
Re: from hobby comic to professional: the pitfalls of progre
What I did was start drawing daily cartoons almost thirty years before starting my webcomic. By now my style is pretty much set in stone. Of course this plan's not for everyone.
I re-introduced my comic as a sequel, giving enough background information in the first few pages for new readers to be able to understand.
The old archives were moved to a different page, so that new readers who click the "first comic" link didn't get an eyeful of ugliness and run for the hills.
I thought of re-doing everything, but personally it's a lot more fun to write new material than to rewrite old.
"KrazyKrow" wrote: I
True, but even when you do that, chances are someone reviewing your comic will go to the old site and make all their criticism about your artwork based on a page you drew years ago before your style was very developed.
But rest assured folks, not everyone has my hard luck :P Just keep in mind some people are going to go out of their way to make you feel bad about the way you used to draw. Just say "fuck em' " and take pride in how far you've come, not how far back you used to be.
-Brian
Yeah, your old work can drag you down more than you relize...after all, if you're going for a consistent look throughout the strip, you may be less inclined to take risks with your style. You'll want everything to look more or less like the first few strips and, whether you do it consciously or not, you may hold yourself back from evolving or developing as quickly as you should. The thing is, webcomic features are supposed to change as the artist grows. So a contrast between the first and last chapters is often a sign of healthy progress. But it can be unseemly in a printed collection, for example.
Perhaps the best way to tackle the consistency issue is to avoid settling down too soon. For awhile it can be good to do minicomics or short webcomic features, taking as many creative directions as you possibly can, developing your style, before settling on something you can reproduce consistently for the duration of the comic. Even then, once you have a webcomic you want to keep up for a long time, be open to new ideas and changes in direction. Most readers will forgive a little ugliness in the early chapters.
And once your comic comes to an end, your readers know that your next feature will be pretty right from the very beginning, and they'll stick around.
In answer, I recommend you pick up a copy of "Still a Few Bugs in the System," the first anthology of Doonesbury strips. The writing is solid, but the art is abysmal. The message: Don't worry about it. People grow. Everyone understands that.
Also.. if you've gone "pro" -- my first tip would be to tell you to CLAIM everything for tax purposes. Here is a small list of things you can claim-- you can do TONS more...
-your internet bill
-any computer hardware or software expenses.
-slap a magnet on the side of your car advertising for people to go to your website, and suddenly EVERYTHING for your car becomes a write off as well.
-art supplies and the like, of course.
- "reference" materials.... heh.....
Keep all your receipts--- and if you feel totally overwhelmed, pay an accountant a few bucks to do it all for you come tax season----
the groovy thing-- you can actually end up getting money BACK from the govt that can help aide you in your future stuff.
Now you know one of the BIG secrets to how some of those other guys can afford to go to big shows, and do merchandising out the arse. : )
DJ: You can try doing that, but technically a lot of what you recommended is a no-no.... the internet connection and computer must be exclusively for business, no gaming or internet porn on the side. Of course, it's only illegal if you get caught...
I'm turning half of my living room into a home office, and deducting 25% of my rent and utilities from my taxes :) If you have an attic or a closet, leave some merchandise in there. Even if the storage space is shared, you can deduct the entire square footage.
Right on, DJ.
To that I would add, you'll need to have at least >SOME< income to show from your 'toon to make those deductions legit. In other words, if you made less money than you spent, that's okay. If you spend for your business, but don't derive any income from it, that's a red flag for an audit.
-K
"KrazyKrow" wrote: DJ: You
The only thing that's illegal is lying about it. Actually, you could get away with having a machine and connection that is primarily your work computer. You can totally have an online game on it---- your internet is like a library in your house for reference material...... a fantasy artist say, could write off a TON of resource material on pictures of women, etc..... Believe me, I know a few painters who do this and it's perfectly legal.
The rule of thumb is, if something you're using is more than 75% for your business, than you can usually claim it as a business expense. Including a vehicle.
I would suggest, if folks are interested in this, they check out the irs website, which has some AWESOME info for self-employed taxes--- also, possibly find an independent accountant who can help you with any questions you may have. Those accountants know ALL the spiffy credits and business tricks to maximize your tax returns.
Keep in mind, if you post a loss for three years straight you'll likely get audited and have your business classified as a subsidized hobby.
Part of the question was about a cross-over being a block to printing...
I'd leave the old archives up, but do some re-jiggering (to get from before the cross-over to after the cross-over) for a printed version. From there, redraw as much as you need to for you to be happy with your book.
Like others have said, it's a constantly improving process, so you'll never be completely satisfied. But you should be able to find some level of compromise that gives readers of the book enough background to enjoy it and yet doesn't leave you covering too much old territory, wasting time (that could be spent on new comics) on redrawing old ones.
Then, the new material can be added inspiration to fans to buy the book - it doesn't rewrite the story, so if they DON'T buy it, they won't really miss anything. But if they do get it, they also get to see what you changed.
And the book can be an inspiration for people to check out the online comic. (With a note that says something like "I redrew chapter one to get around a roadblock involving someone else's copyright - to see the originals, check out my website...")
Regards,
Kelly J. Cooper
Comixpedia Editor
Well, I would like to thank you all for your feedback on this. It's really nice to see how other people think about the subject of redoing earlier comics.
Still, it is a problem I need to deal with in one way or another. I'm entertaining the thought of putting advertisements on some sites in order to increase traffic, and I don't want people to be dissapointed about the quality of the art once they come in. (You know how some comics make their banner all full-colour and pretty, and then you go to the site and it's all sketchy black and white?)
About claiming expenses for tax-reasons: I think that's a good idea, but it's something for when I actually start making money of my work.
Nonetheless, again, thank you all for your replies.
Everybody acts as if it's an
Everybody acts as if it's an either/or. It isn't.
This is the Internet. We can LINK.
We can do both.
I'm slowly redrawing the origin of my main character, because it's
so pivotal to the character that I'm sure any new reader will sooner or
later read it, and the art was extrmely primiative at first--so I
wanted to put a better "face" on it....so I replaced the images on some
of the pages with "improved" versions, but left a link to the "original
page" So those who want to see how I've improved can, but those who
would be repulsed by the early drawings see better drawings.
For instance, here at http://mindmistress.keenspace.com/mindact1.htm is the current first page of the origin storyline. There's a link to the "original page" off that, which links you to http://mindmistress.keenspace.com/oldmindact1.htm---note the difference in art.
I'm trying to add a few pages inbetween storylines every so often.
Remember, it's not an either/or. You can offer your reader both.
Now, if I can get more other artists to draw different versions of
the pages, what I call "alternative pages", that would be ideal.
Al Schroeder III of MINDMISTRESS---think the superhero genre is mined out? Think there are no new superhero ideas? Think again.
"Al Shroeder"
Both old and new artwork you mean? Well actually, I was already planning on keeping the old artwork in there, even if I were to redo the first chapters. I think it's rather foolish to just take your old work from the net, since it can serve as a reminder of how much you've improved.
Seeing your old work is both embarrassing and motivating that way, I guess. The embarrassment is making me want to redo it, but the ‘motivating’ part of it ensures that I save my old work. (plus, old work = nostalgia)
To extend my original question somewhat: Does redoing earlier comics pay off? The process takes an enormous amount of time, time which could, of course, be used to make new comics. In the end, what do you think is the actual impact of such a ‘renovation’?
As a reader I truely enjoy watching an artist evolve. Cerebus' first comics don't even compare to the later stuff, and yet there's a lot of fun to be had in the early art/writing. Same goes for a lot of the long running web comics. Watching an artist evolve is inspiring.
When it comes time to print the collection, I recommend keeping it pure, but add a short story at the begining, so that the first impression is of your most recent skill level. That's what I'll do if I ever get around to printing a collection for Fabricari. :)
Despite my desire to change it, I left the first comics I did as is in my print collections. As mentioned previously, people understand that an artist improves with time. Jim Davis is always one example I think of in that Garfield looks completely different today than he did in the first strips.